We solved the problem, here in the south of France, where restaurants usually open for dinner at 7, but as you noted, most people actually start arriving at around 8-8:30. We stopped eating dinner out, with occasional exceptions. We started making lunchtime our big meal of the day. We arrive around noon or 12:30, enjoy a nice lunch, sometimes a glass of wine or two, sometimes just sparkling water, and we have a long leisurely lunch. We are rarely hungry at "dinner time" and if we are, we combine an evening walk with our little dog, and head over to a cafe that has an apero menu. We have a glass of wine and maybe a light "apero" type munchie. One evening, I didn't even bother with the wine. I ordered a cup of tea. And that's it. If we're meeting friends, we have sorta eased them into doing lunch with us instead of dinner. It works for everyone. If we don't do lunch out, I'll cook at home, and make what we call "linner", a combination of lunch and dinner and we'll eat somewhere between 3 and 4pm. This avoids anyone out in the world finding out we are sorta "old" and we're staying away from the late dining, that just lies there like a blob in our full stomachs, as we're getting ready for bed.
Yup, we’ve made the same adjustment for our rare meals out. We also frequently have Happytizers—appetizers at Happy Hour that serves as a light dinner. The eating pattern I’ve grown to appreciate is: Eat breakfast like a King, lunch like a Prince and dinner like a pauper.
This is fabulous! Was a especially intrigued with the factoid about Generalissimo Franco, Hitler in the time zone alignment. Thank you for digging it up. :-)
The most extreme for us was southern Italy. The first time we were invited for dinner by Italian friends in Brindisi (a state magistrate, I might note), it was mid-summer and they asked us to come about 9 p.m. The Italian dinner schedule - whether private or in a restaurant - is quite predictably antipasto, primo, secondo, dolce, and digestivo. One starts this process upon arrival, and continues for up to 5 hours. That night, we finished up with digestivo on the balcony at 2 a.m. watching the busy Brindisi street life below.
Italian eating follows the Italian motto: “lavorare per vivere, non vivere per lavorare” - “working to live, not living to work.” Within a short time, we'd gone native. Interestingly, Italians have lower rates of obesity and diabetes than the US and northern Europe, despite eating pasta for every meal. I'd also note that Italy is the home of the Slow Food movement.
To your point: for decades, we have eaten on the French schedule, no matter where we have been physically located. It does drive some American friends crazy. We invite them for dinner at, say, 7 p.m. Dinner is served no earlier - and often later - than 8 p.m. We eat in stages. It's not one large plate stacked with food. It's smaller individual portions. To begin, there are drinks and hors d'oeuvre along with discussions of many things and possibly solving at least one major world problem. The main course is generally a plate with protein and vegetables, servez-vous même. Then a salad. Then a cheese to transition the pallet from savory to sweet. Then desert, served perhaps with a digestivo. We pretty much do this every night, company or not.
To quote my farmer grandfather: We may not be rich, but we will eat well.
Actually, I think the habit started when growing up on a farm. Dinner was always at the end of the day, after the work was mostly done, particularly in the summer. We were making hay while the sun was out!
My husband’s family is from Italy. They don’t hit the cafes until 10 p.m. as well. But, they do eat a hearty “dinner” at noon or so, much like the French. I found that, like you, my GERD is way out of whack if I eat much past 8 p.m. When in Rome, I do as the Romans, but I eat much, much less and lighter fare late at night than I do at noon. P.S.: Aren’t you fortunate to have moved to France well before the rest of us contemplating leaving before we turn into Hungary lite (or heavy?)!
We were in Portugal last year. They have the second latest dinner hour next to Spain according to the map. On a tour it was mentioned that the Portuguese people are also among the latest sleepers on the Continent.
This was a great read- gave me loads of smiles and the graphics were really interesting ! We’ve been in the Dordogne for the past month and have tried several “service continu” bistros. Of course we are serving lunch, they respond, then seat us at our table, but no matter the time we place our order , it arrives at our table at midi and not a minute sooner😉
Oh, and I definitely function on your timetable, regardless of the time zone.
We just returned from our trip to Europe and we ate late either because of a tour or the restaurant didn’t open until 7pm. It didn’t bother me but I was not used to being allowed to just sit even if we were finished. Most times we had to ask for the check! We are so used to restaurants wanting to turn tables over.
As a night owl, I’ve always preferred to eat later (otherwise I’m tempted to snack), and when I was getting home from the office at 7 or so, it was a necessity. Told the kids we were European, and like Europeans, they generally got real food in return, not something I’d just zapped from the freezer.
I may have eaten a little earlier in Norway last year, but I didn’t find empty restaurants at 8 p.m. They must stay open for tourists?
I love the dining charts, and I didn't realize that Norwegians and the like ate earlier. I knew the Spaniards eat very late and have longer lunches. Your inclusion of charts was great--they are fascinating, and I am impressed with the self-tailored one you constructed!
I would fit right in with the late dining time. For some reason, I have always liked eating later. When I was growing up, my family ate at 6:30 pm generally--my father had a 9 to 5, but he worked 10 to 6 typically (He was a night owl--and that is something I inherited). I can get up at any time no matter what time I go to bed, but I rarely go to bed before 1 am and often 2 am (I and I am typically up at 7 am or 7:30 am). I eat oatmeal or the like about 11 am, then a small something at 3 or 4 pm--and dinner anytime between 8 pm and 11 pm.
I feel you! In the States we usually eat around 6:30 so when we’re in France, I struggle to adjust. I went to Argentina years ago and they start dinner around 9. It was terrible!
We too prefer a lunch out to a dinner out, but eat late -- even later than the French norm -- but light. As with many French people, lunch is our main meal. We must be lucky with our digestive systems though, because if we do eat a bigger late dinner, as in at a dinner party, our guts usually survive pretty well.
We are such creatures of habit without thinking about it, especially when it comes to meals and eating. I'm glad you've managed to maintain your own schedule, for the most part, Theresa. I know I will have to do that and make allowances for what I can and cannot eat. Egads!
I seem to remember that lunch, le déjeuner, was the main meal in France and Spain when I was there (1970) People in France went home from work at midday and had a full meal. Then they had a light supper in the evening. This was en famille, not at restaurants. At the same time, dinner service in French restaurants didn't start until 7 - which even then was considered very early. And that was the full dinner. I could never figure out that dichotomy. In Spain, absolutely everything closed for two hours, from noon to two. People went home and had a big midday meal and siesta. Shops, cafés, all closed. (Not in Madrid)
Hi Don and Theresa! So excited to find you on Substack. My husband and I are looking at Rennes for retirement. Would love to hear how you chose Rennes. We would like to live close to the city centre, as we love city living. Looking forward to reading about your adventures.
Hello. I’m happy to share how we came to choose Rennes. On my way to England for a week. If you email me it will be easier for me to respond. Yogitheresaconroy@gmail.com.
We solved the problem, here in the south of France, where restaurants usually open for dinner at 7, but as you noted, most people actually start arriving at around 8-8:30. We stopped eating dinner out, with occasional exceptions. We started making lunchtime our big meal of the day. We arrive around noon or 12:30, enjoy a nice lunch, sometimes a glass of wine or two, sometimes just sparkling water, and we have a long leisurely lunch. We are rarely hungry at "dinner time" and if we are, we combine an evening walk with our little dog, and head over to a cafe that has an apero menu. We have a glass of wine and maybe a light "apero" type munchie. One evening, I didn't even bother with the wine. I ordered a cup of tea. And that's it. If we're meeting friends, we have sorta eased them into doing lunch with us instead of dinner. It works for everyone. If we don't do lunch out, I'll cook at home, and make what we call "linner", a combination of lunch and dinner and we'll eat somewhere between 3 and 4pm. This avoids anyone out in the world finding out we are sorta "old" and we're staying away from the late dining, that just lies there like a blob in our full stomachs, as we're getting ready for bed.
Yup, we’ve made the same adjustment for our rare meals out. We also frequently have Happytizers—appetizers at Happy Hour that serves as a light dinner. The eating pattern I’ve grown to appreciate is: Eat breakfast like a King, lunch like a Prince and dinner like a pauper.
This is fabulous! Was a especially intrigued with the factoid about Generalissimo Franco, Hitler in the time zone alignment. Thank you for digging it up. :-)
The most extreme for us was southern Italy. The first time we were invited for dinner by Italian friends in Brindisi (a state magistrate, I might note), it was mid-summer and they asked us to come about 9 p.m. The Italian dinner schedule - whether private or in a restaurant - is quite predictably antipasto, primo, secondo, dolce, and digestivo. One starts this process upon arrival, and continues for up to 5 hours. That night, we finished up with digestivo on the balcony at 2 a.m. watching the busy Brindisi street life below.
Italian eating follows the Italian motto: “lavorare per vivere, non vivere per lavorare” - “working to live, not living to work.” Within a short time, we'd gone native. Interestingly, Italians have lower rates of obesity and diabetes than the US and northern Europe, despite eating pasta for every meal. I'd also note that Italy is the home of the Slow Food movement.
To your point: for decades, we have eaten on the French schedule, no matter where we have been physically located. It does drive some American friends crazy. We invite them for dinner at, say, 7 p.m. Dinner is served no earlier - and often later - than 8 p.m. We eat in stages. It's not one large plate stacked with food. It's smaller individual portions. To begin, there are drinks and hors d'oeuvre along with discussions of many things and possibly solving at least one major world problem. The main course is generally a plate with protein and vegetables, servez-vous même. Then a salad. Then a cheese to transition the pallet from savory to sweet. Then desert, served perhaps with a digestivo. We pretty much do this every night, company or not.
To quote my farmer grandfather: We may not be rich, but we will eat well.
You are way more French than I!!
Actually, I think the habit started when growing up on a farm. Dinner was always at the end of the day, after the work was mostly done, particularly in the summer. We were making hay while the sun was out!
My husband’s family is from Italy. They don’t hit the cafes until 10 p.m. as well. But, they do eat a hearty “dinner” at noon or so, much like the French. I found that, like you, my GERD is way out of whack if I eat much past 8 p.m. When in Rome, I do as the Romans, but I eat much, much less and lighter fare late at night than I do at noon. P.S.: Aren’t you fortunate to have moved to France well before the rest of us contemplating leaving before we turn into Hungary lite (or heavy?)!
We feel so fortunate to already be settled in here.
I believe the French have La Prilosec, which was designed for post-7:30 p.m. dining, which is normal in my house.
We were in Portugal last year. They have the second latest dinner hour next to Spain according to the map. On a tour it was mentioned that the Portuguese people are also among the latest sleepers on the Continent.
This was a great read- gave me loads of smiles and the graphics were really interesting ! We’ve been in the Dordogne for the past month and have tried several “service continu” bistros. Of course we are serving lunch, they respond, then seat us at our table, but no matter the time we place our order , it arrives at our table at midi and not a minute sooner😉
Oh, and I definitely function on your timetable, regardless of the time zone.
A month! Sounds like a great trip, Debbie.
We just returned from our trip to Europe and we ate late either because of a tour or the restaurant didn’t open until 7pm. It didn’t bother me but I was not used to being allowed to just sit even if we were finished. Most times we had to ask for the check! We are so used to restaurants wanting to turn tables over.
Yes, they let you sit and take your time here.
As a night owl, I’ve always preferred to eat later (otherwise I’m tempted to snack), and when I was getting home from the office at 7 or so, it was a necessity. Told the kids we were European, and like Europeans, they generally got real food in return, not something I’d just zapped from the freezer.
I may have eaten a little earlier in Norway last year, but I didn’t find empty restaurants at 8 p.m. They must stay open for tourists?
I don't think I've ever been in many restaurants in Norway or Finland very late, but have always been excited to see how full they are at 5:30.
I love the dining charts, and I didn't realize that Norwegians and the like ate earlier. I knew the Spaniards eat very late and have longer lunches. Your inclusion of charts was great--they are fascinating, and I am impressed with the self-tailored one you constructed!
I would fit right in with the late dining time. For some reason, I have always liked eating later. When I was growing up, my family ate at 6:30 pm generally--my father had a 9 to 5, but he worked 10 to 6 typically (He was a night owl--and that is something I inherited). I can get up at any time no matter what time I go to bed, but I rarely go to bed before 1 am and often 2 am (I and I am typically up at 7 am or 7:30 am). I eat oatmeal or the like about 11 am, then a small something at 3 or 4 pm--and dinner anytime between 8 pm and 11 pm.
I can see how pushing the whole eating schedule gets you to dinner so late, but as a night owl at least you have time to digest.
Yes, that is the key-- I am up for many hours after I eat, and that makes a huge difference!
I feel you! In the States we usually eat around 6:30 so when we’re in France, I struggle to adjust. I went to Argentina years ago and they start dinner around 9. It was terrible!
We too prefer a lunch out to a dinner out, but eat late -- even later than the French norm -- but light. As with many French people, lunch is our main meal. We must be lucky with our digestive systems though, because if we do eat a bigger late dinner, as in at a dinner party, our guts usually survive pretty well.
We are such creatures of habit without thinking about it, especially when it comes to meals and eating. I'm glad you've managed to maintain your own schedule, for the most part, Theresa. I know I will have to do that and make allowances for what I can and cannot eat. Egads!
I seem to remember that lunch, le déjeuner, was the main meal in France and Spain when I was there (1970) People in France went home from work at midday and had a full meal. Then they had a light supper in the evening. This was en famille, not at restaurants. At the same time, dinner service in French restaurants didn't start until 7 - which even then was considered very early. And that was the full dinner. I could never figure out that dichotomy. In Spain, absolutely everything closed for two hours, from noon to two. People went home and had a big midday meal and siesta. Shops, cafés, all closed. (Not in Madrid)
Once I moved out to France, I got used real fast to eat dinner earlier, now I understand the "struggle" every time I go back. 😄
Hi Don and Theresa! So excited to find you on Substack. My husband and I are looking at Rennes for retirement. Would love to hear how you chose Rennes. We would like to live close to the city centre, as we love city living. Looking forward to reading about your adventures.
Hello. I’m happy to share how we came to choose Rennes. On my way to England for a week. If you email me it will be easier for me to respond. Yogitheresaconroy@gmail.com.